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Rek Seven
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Posted - 2014.09.11 07:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Congratulations for getting on the CSM. You seem like a rational thinker and i'm confident that you will do a good job representing the community.
Like Corbexx, i would appreciate it if you used these forums to communicate with the community, rather just focusing on third party sites like redit.
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Rek Seven
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Posted - 2014.09.11 09:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Asayanami Dei wrote:
It would make sense and encourage people to fly different things. PVE content for frigates would be nice too.
Agreed.
Here's a thought... add a new frigate sleeper site that only spawns when a frigate wormhole connects to a system. This way the frig wormholes offer more that tedium and annoyance.
Terrorfrodo wrote:Training an alt with very good frigate skills but cheap clone and cheap implants takes maybe 3 months. Every wormholer can easily have such an alt on one of his accounts. Now with dual training you don't even need to pause training on your main.
You're free to do that if you want but i don't think its a reasonable suggestion. I shouldn't need to create a new account and pay for more plex just to make use of the frigate wormholes.
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Rek Seven
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Posted - 2014.09.11 10:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Why not? The problem that frig combat is unfeasible for high-sp characters is universal to EVE and not specific to wormholes. If you want to utilize frigates, you should have a low-sp, cheap-clone alt. The only new thing is that EVE now kind of forces us to even consider using frigates, where before they were almost completely ignored in wspace.
It's not a universal problem because the rest of the universe has immediate access to clones. Again, i don't want to create and fund a new character/account just to jump through a wormhole.
I'm not going to argue with you. I want clone swapping and you don't, end of conversation.
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Rek Seven
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Posted - 2014.09.11 10:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's not a good point because it has nothing to do with the issue!  Getting podded out is just the price you pay in w-space.
Right now i'm in an ascendancy clone which i use in a Tengu. If i use a frigate, whether it's to go on a k-space roam or to jump through a frigate wormhole, i would be exposing my pod to a greater and unnecessary level of risk. 9 times out of 10 i'll either avoid doing the thing that requires me to fly a frig or i'll log off. Sure that's my problem but it also takes away someones opportunity to kill me.
Don't get me wrong, i want to fly frigates and other types of ships but i'm not going to fly a pod worth many times the price of my ship unless i know i'm going to win and survive (e.g. blob and ecm a target). If i would swap to a cheaper pod designed for frigates, i would take more chances and i'm guessing lots of people would feel the same.
Not sure why i have to explain that but there it is.
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Rek Seven
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Posted - 2014.09.11 11:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:Rek Seven wrote: 9 times out of 10 i'll either avoid doing the thing that requires me to fly a frig or i'll log off. Sure that's my problem but it also takes away someones opportunity to kill me.
Don't get me wrong, i want to fly frigates and other types of ships but i'm not going to fly a pod worth many times the price of my ship unless i know i'm going to win and survive (e.g. blob and ecm a target).. We are on the cutting edge of spontaneous as a group and anything that stops the YOLO is a bad thing imo.
So you agree with me then?? I'm confused. 
If you're FC is going to be plagued by people saying "should i use my frigate clone for this frigate roam or my slave set?", your FC/corp has bigger problems.
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Rek Seven
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Posted - 2014.09.11 13:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:
And again, I think the attitude "I'll get podded if I fly a frigate" is imho counter-intuitive. I go to every fight with the sole intent of coming out alive with a few more kills to my name, ship class has no relevancy in this.
If anyone has a weak argument here it's you with your "we shouldn't have it because k-space has it" argument that is barely an opinion and just stems from an irrational fear that once day CCP will add fixed gates, stations and concord to w-space.
The issue that i have isn't "i'll get podded if i fly a frigate" it''s "if i get podded in this 20 mil frigate, i'll lose 2 billion so i think i'll sit this one out"... If after that you can't see how allowing clone swapping would encourage more people to participate in non T3 combat, i must be talking to a moron.
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Rek Seven
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Posted - 2014.09.11 13:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:
And again, I think the attitude "I'll get podded if I fly a frigate" is imho counter-intuitive. I go to every fight with the sole intent of coming out alive with a few more kills to my name, ship class has no relevancy in this.
If anyone has a weak argument here it's you with your "we shouldn't have it because k-space has it" argument that is barely an opinion and just stems from an irrational fear that once day CCP will add fixed gates, stations and concord to w-space. The issue that i have isn't "i'll get podded if i fly a frigate" it''s "if i get podded in this 20 mil frigate, i'll lose 2 billion so i think i'll sit this one out"... If after that you can't see how allowing clone swapping would encourage more people to participate in non T3 combat, i must be talking to a moron. No, I didn't present that argument, you said that you want clone swapping because k-space has it and only it unlocks frigate fights for you. CCP isn't bringing gates or stations to w-space afaik. Are you worried? Free ships would encourage more players to PVP, but it doesn't mean free ships are a good idea. Are you happier to lose your 2 bil clone if you lose a 1.5bil ship with it? Or you just don't take any fights where you could possibly die? If you don't realize that this is all about your personal tendency towards risk aversity, I must be talking to a moron.
Where did i say "i want it because k-space has it" i clearly say that i want it because it would encourage me to fly other ships and take more chances.
I'm not bothered if i lose a 200 billion clone in a 10 million isk as long as the pod is designed for a cruiser but a 1 billion isk t3 would provide extra protection against getting podded. So yes, i would be happier knowing that i did everything i could even if i ended up losing.
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Rek Seven
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Posted - 2014.09.11 15:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:
I only give one reason because it's as many as you gave.
1) it only caters to the risk averse (as you already admitted that reducing your risk is the only reason you want clone swapping)
I actually gave several reasons if you cared to read between the lines so i'll just assume that you can't answer the question.
Anyway you are wrong on both accounts. Firstly it's little to do with risk and more to do with common sense and secondly, clone swapping would also be used for PVPers willing to take risks (e.g. having a clone for shield ships and having one for armour).
Anyway, i'd rather not continue this pointless argument as neither of us are going to change our minds, so lets agree to disagree.
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Rek Seven
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Posted - 2014.09.11 16:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:
The ability to swap into a different clone in wormholes comes with several problems also, the biggest on I see is podding people to maintain hole control during a seige will no longer have an affect. To counter this, I think that clone swapping should be allowed, but not unless you are in the wormhole system that your clone is stored. A little more hard work for the Devs to implement, sure. But this would stop people jumping from wormholes to K-space and vice versa.
To be clear, what most people have in mind is literal just a clone swap. You would go up to the Rorqual or some new pos mod, select your sleeping clone and swap your current clone for the sleeping one. When you get podded you go to your medical clone in K-space.
... at least, that's what i hope others have in mind
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